As the media continue to convulse over the fallout of President Donald Trump’s announcement of reciprocal tariffs, there have emerged several goofy narratives. Chief among them, that the proof evident of the haphazard nature of President Trump’s tariffs is the reciprocal levy upon the largely uninhabited Heard and McDonald Islands, south of Australia. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick shut that mess down fairly quickly.
Watch as CBS’s Margaret Brennan tried to roll that out, only to get ended by Lutnick:
“Why is Trump tariffing the penguins” has been a thing for several days now but no one ever bothered to ask until now, and now we know why. In short, these uninhabited locales were tariffed in order to inhibit tariff circumvention from actors such as China and other nations.
The left and their allies in the media will undoubtedly persist in continuing to push this goofy narrative. Doing so in the face of a well-thought out rationale will only make the media and everyone else in the leftwing orbit look foolish.
Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the aforementioned interview, as aired on CBS Face the Nation on Sunday, April 6th, 2025:
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. Secretary, welcome to “Face the Nation.”
HOWARD LUTNICK: Great to be here.
BRENNAN: We see about 60% of Americans have money in the stock market, which mean that retirees could be just as concerned as hedge fund managers this morning. Did you expect this level of shock in the financial markets?
LUTNICK: Well, you’ve got to realize this is a national security issue. I mean, we don’t make medicine in this country anymore. We don’t make ships. We don’t have enough steel and aluminum to fight a battle, right? All our semiconductors are made overseas. So every button we press when we try to start our car or even use our microwave, these are all semiconductors. They’re all made elsewhere. We’ve got to start to protect ourselves, and we’ve got to stop having all the countries of the world ripping us off. We have a $1.2 trillion trade deficit, and the rest of the world has a surplus with us. They’re earning our money. They’re taking our money, and Donald Trump has seen this, and he’s going to stop it. So it is going to be a big change. Of course, it’s going to be a big change, but the rest of the world has been ripping us off for all these many years. Donald Trump has seen it. He’s spoken about it–
BRENNAN: –I understand that and–
LUTNICK: –and he’s just not going to take it anymore. And that’s his model.
BRENNAN: And that was abundantly clear during the presidential campaign, how much the president truly believes in tariffs and putting them at the center of his economic policy, but you saw absolute panic in the global markets. Did you expect that or were you surprised?
LUTNICK: No, I think the point is, you need to reset the power of the United States of America and reset it against all our allies and our enemies alike. The- the idea that all the countries of the world can run trade surpluses with America and buy our things with us– remember, $1.2 trillion. in 1980 we were a net investor- meaning we owned more of the rest of the world than they owned of us–
BRENNAN: Yeah, it’s a different world now, it’s a different market.
LUTNICK: And now- and now they own 18- they own $18 trillion of us, net. So that means the rest of the- every year when we run a $1.2 trillion deficit, the rest of the world buys $1.2 trillion of America, and it goes up and up and up. And eventually we’re not going to own America, and we are going to be owned by the rest of the world.
BRENNAN: Are you talking about–
LUTNICK: Imagine if we had a war and we can’t build a ship, we can’t fly a plane. We can’t build our own planes–
BRENNAN: Okay–
LUTNICK: –we don’t have our own semiconductors. This is what the President is here to fix for America. It’s- he- in his hands, and he wants to fix America. This is his chance–
BRENNAN: Understood. So–
LUTNICK: –to fix America, and we need him to fix it for our children and our grandchildren.
BRENNAN: Okay, but for- for businesses to do what you’re doing, because what I hear you laying out there is a plan to re-industrialize the United States and to bring companies back to America. For a CEO to choose to invest–
LUTNICK: Well said. Well said.
BRENNAN: –but for a CEO to make those decisions- you know this- they need certainty. They need to know if it costs them more to stay overseas, or if it costs them more to move here. So can you give them clarity, so that they don’t just cut jobs because they’re dealing with the cost of these tariff- tariffs. Can you tell them how long they’re staying in place?
LUTNICK: Absolutely. The United States of America is going to protect the people who invest in America. Trillions and trillions of dollars- you heard the President speak about it- are coming to invest in America. This is the economy of the world. We are the consumer of the world, and companies need to build it here, and we will protect them for building it here.
BRENNAN: Okay, so–
LUTNICK: We will help the American workers, yes. American workers are more expensive, but they’re better.
BRENNAN: I got it–
LUTNICK: We’re going to protect all the factories that come to America, and that’s what’s coming here. So, the President is on it–
(CROSSTALK)
BRENNAN: Okay, is the 10% tariff permanent?
LUTNICK: He’s going to protect them- well, remember, this is a national security issue–
BRENNAN: –I got it. Is the 10% tariff permanent?
LUTNICK: –and he needs to address our budget deficit- that- the, you know, the laws of America are the laws of America, he would like it to be that we need to protect the companies that invest here, and we are going to protect the companies that invest here. That is the policy of the United States of America. That’s why trillions of dollars are coming here. The rip off of the- of the United States of America is over. All these companies are going to come and invest here. That’s what they’re doing. That’s why they’ve committed trillions of dollars. They know this is the economy–
BRENNAN: – Okay, Mr. Secretary, though–
LUTNICK: –this is the place to go.
(END CROSSTALK)
BRENNAN: Mr. Secretary, the campaign’s over. You won. So I’m asking what the plan is. So the treasury secretary said on another network, “we’re going to hold the course.” “It’s not the kind of thing you can negotiate away in days or weeks.” That makes it sound like the tariffs are staying in place at least for days or weeks. Is that correct? Or is the President considering postponing implementation to negotiate?
LUTNICK: There is no postponing. They are definitely going to stay in place for days and weeks. That is sort of obvious. The president needs to reset global trade. Everybody has a trade surplus and we have a trade deficit. We are paying away our future and our lives. Come- the countries of the world are ripping us off, and it’s got to end. The President has made it crystal, crystal clear. This is the policy we’re going to protect. The factories that come build in America, we’re going to protect them. They’re going to be successful. That’s why they’re going to build in America, the greatest economy in the earth. All of these companies are going to come and build here.
BRENNAN: So when three of the President’s other economic advisers, who are on other networks today, say that 50 different countries have been calling the White House to try to talk about the tariffs, what does that mean? Because that makes it sound like there is a negotiation, which is different from saying the tariffs are permanent.
LUTNICK: Well, what it shows is that all these countries know that they’ve been ripping us off, and the day has come for that to end. Now the problem is, it’s not just tariffs- like, I’ll give you an example, like Vietnam said they’d like to be zero-zero. Remember, Vietnam sends us $120 billion worth of goods every year–
BRENNAN: Yes, cheap manufacturing
LUTNICK: And we send them about $12 billion- wait, we send them $12 billion. So it’s not the tariffs. It has nothing to do with tariffs. If they went to zero-zero, they would go to 200 billion with us. We need to stop the rip off, and zero-zero is- is the way–
BRENNAN: –I know but we don’t have zero-zero, sir.
LUTNICK: –to make it more of a rip off. We need–
BRENNAN: We don’t have zero-zero actually, because when we saw the president stand in the Rose Garden holding up that chart that you helped make, that- that wasn’t actually tariffs. That was actually confusing to investors, because it was some kind of other formula, and the countries themselves seemed kind of random. Like, why are the Heard and McDonald Islands, which don’t export to the United States and are quite literally inhabited by penguins, why do they face a 10% tariff? Did you use AI to generate this?
LUTNICK: No. No, the idea- look, the idea is that there are no countries left off.
BRENNAN: Why are they on the list?
LUTNICK: Because the idea- what happens is, if you leave anything off the list, the countries that try to basically arbitrage America go through those countries to us. Any country- like we had tariffs, the President put tariffs on China, right, in 2018, and then what China started doing is they started going through other countries to America. They just built through other countries, through America. And so, the President knows that, he’s tired of it, and he’s going to fix that. So basically he said, look, I can’t let any part of the world be a place where China or other countries can ship through them–
BRENNAN: Through the Heard Islands.
LUTNICK: –so the end of those loopholes- these ridiculous loopholes. And now what he’s trying to say is, I’m going to fix the trade deficit of the United States of America. It’s a national security issue. We need to make medicine. We need to make semiconductors. We need to make ships. We need to have steel and aluminum. Come on, we need the greatness of America to actually be built in America. And he’s tired of getting ripped off by the rest of the world.
BRENNAN: Okay, but just to be clear, April 9, the so-called retaliatory tariffs- the reciprocal tariffs, I should say. Are those coming or are they open to negotiation?
LUTNICK: The tariffs are coming. He announced it, and he wasn’t kidding. The tariffs are coming. Of course they are.
BRENNAN: Okay. Is the administration considering any kind of offset, any kind of subsidy? You mentioned the first administration, there was some bailout to farmers to help them deal with the pain from Chinese retaliation. Are you looking at that now?
LUTNICK: I’m- not that I’ve- I have not participated in any meetings with respect to that. The country is focused on- you realize, trillions of dollars of factories are going to be built in America. That’s huge GDP. The factories being built in America are huge GDP–
(CROSSTALK)
BRENNAN: That takes years–
LUTNICK: And that is going to matter to us.
BRENNAN: And you said that robots are going to fill those jobs. So those aren’t union worker jobs.
LUTNICK: No, it’s really automated jobs. It’s automated factories- automated factories. But the key is, who’s going to build the factories? Who’s going to operate the factories? Who’s going to make them work? Great American workers. You know, we are going to replace–
BRENNAN: You said robots on other networks. You said that to FOX.
LUTNICK: –the armies of millions of people- well, remember, the army of millions and millions of human beings screwing in little- little screws to make iPhones, that kind of thing is going to come to America. It’s going to be automated and great Americans- the tradecraft of America, is going to fix them, is going to work on them. They’re going to be mechanics. There’s going to be HVAC specialists. There’s going to be electricians, the tradecraft of America. Our high school educated Americans- the core to our workforce, is going to have the greatest resurgence of jobs in the history of America to work on these high-tech factories, which are all coming to America. That’s what’s going to build our next generation of America.
(CROSSTALK)
BRENNAN: Are you concerned, in the time it will take for a company to move to America, that it will benefit China in the- in the immediate term, that other markets will look to other suppliers instead of dealing with the United States?
LUTNICK: That is ridiculous. The problem is, everyone in the world sells to us. Our economy is the consumer of the world. We are the only one with a trade deficit. The rest of the world has a trade surplus. Why does Europe have a trade surplus? Is there something about Europe that’s special? Seriously, are they a different world than we are? Why are they selling 200 billion a year–
BRENNAN: Oh, Mr. Secretary.
LUTNICK: –more to us. It’s because it’s not fair. The rules are made not fair, and President Trump is going to fix them, and he’s doing it for America, and he’s doing it for your children and mine and our grandchildren. This is the moment that the United States of America takes hold of itself, and Donald Trump’s been talking about this his whole life. This is Donald Trump’s agenda, and we’re all here to help him execute it.
BRENNAN: And we will take him at his word, quite literally. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for your time this morning. “Face the Nation” will be back in a minute. Stay with us.